Skip to transcript of Episode 11
Show Notes
In Part 2 of the conversation with Dr. Jacqui Springer, Assistant Dean for Student Support and Advocacy Services at the University of Rhode Island, we focus on the transition to college and learning what supports are available and what students and families should consider when applying to college.
The most important thing is for students to have honest conversations with providers, teachers, and caregivers. The biggest error is wishful, magical thinking that it will all work out, without considering what supports students are currently using and are key to their success in high school.
Questions to ask and concerns to think about before applying to colleges include:
Which aspects of student support have been the most valuable to the student in high school? The most common accommodation from high school Individual Education Plans (IEPs ) is 50% extended time for exams and some assignments. These accommodations don’t transfer automatically from high school- the student must re-apply at the college level.
College accommodations may look much different than those in high school. Many students are shocked to learn that flexibility around deadlines and due dates for assignments is not as commonly available at the college level.
What are residence requirements? Are there opportunities for first-year students to have single rooms in dormitories or will the student be required to have a roommate unless medical documentation says they need a single? What challenges will the student face in living with a roommate?
What support may be needed outside the classroom? Can the student independently function in non-academic ways – including taking care of their health and well-being?
What documentation is needed that the student does not currently have? Some schools require recent psychological or neuropsychological testing before they will provide accommodations.
What is offered through campus health services such as psychiatry and therapy? What model of counseling is used?
Find the disability and access services: locate the office and learn how accommodations are provided.
A question that is not asked as much as it used to be is what does it mean to be “otherwise qualified”? In addition to academic skills, students need adequate mental stamina, persistence, and self-regulation to manage demands at the college level.
What impact will the student have on the campus community?
The cost of college education is high and in addition to the standard tuition, room & board, and other fees, students and families should consider other possible costs such as:
- Tutoring
- More time to complete a degree by taking a manageable class load may end up costing more
- Recognizing trouble early because refunds may not be available after a cutoff date
- Implications of dropping or withdrawing from courses may include limits on the availability of future financial aid or even having federal aid taken back from the student.
- Federal aid information is often buried in the financial aid section of the school’s website
Other factors that should be considered
- Type of school: urban, rural, suburban; small, medium, large; typical class sizes; residence requirements; private or state; the range of majors available in the student’s areas of interest
- Location: near home or far away; city or self-contained campus; near activities that students can participate in
- Readiness to live independently
Resources
University of Rhode Island https://www.uri.edu/
FAFSA https://studentaid.gov/h/apply-for-aid/fafsa
Pell Grants https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/grants/pell
Episode 11 AI-Generated transcript, lightly edited for clarity
Candida Fink: Okay. All right, Jo, we’re back. We’re back with Dr. Springer for part two.
Jo-Ann Berry: Right. So, yes, just in case, you’re joining us for the first time. This is Mental Health goes to school I’m Jo-Ann Berry, special educator.
Candida Fink: And I’m, Dr. Candida Fink, a child and adolescent psychiatrist.
Jo-Ann Berry: And joining us today is Dr. Jackie Springer, Assistant Dean for Student Support and Advocacy Services at the University of Rhode Island. Welcome back.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Thank you. Good morning again, everybody.
Jo-Ann Berry: Thanks for being here. Your business card must have a really long title section.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Yeah, it’s a thing. I use different ones. So honestly, I’m really excited that one of the helpful things about moving to digital business cards is you can have more lines and it doesn’t look pretentious because I’m like, well, yes, I’m this and I’m this. I just have different pockets of myself.
Candida Fink: Yeah, it’s true. The digital, the whole move to digital business cards, I was just looking at making one for myself and it’s like, well, this is fun. And then when you change things, a phone number, a fax number, a piece of info it works.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Your last name. Exactly.
Jo-Ann Berry: So, here we are with the second part of our interview with, Jackie. And what we wanted to talk about in this part was kind of transitioning from high school to college is, first of all, on its own, a very big thing. But for students who really need to line up support, for their mental health, for the transition process, just the change from being, with caregivers, with parents or whoever, and being a little more independent, ideally in the college setting, what to look for, I guess, what to look for when you’re looking at colleges.
Candida Fink: What are some of the most highlighted challenges, vulnerabilities that we run into and sort of what can parents and students and everyone who supports them sort of put into place or try to put into place what should be looking for.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Such an important question for me, given that this is how I spend my day almost every day. So I would say one of the most important things, I would see both for providers as well as for teachers, for students and their families, is to have an honest conversation with yourselves. Right. So for providers, when that student, their family is sitting with you, for teachers, having honest conversations, one of the I would say biggest errors that I see folks making is sort of this, Pollyanna hopeful. Okay.
You made it through high school You can do it, right? Like this. Next thing is going to be so great, and it’s all going to work out without having very specific conversations about the services and support that that youngster is currently utilizing and which of those things, whether we’re talking about it from a provider standpoint or school standpoint, which of those things have been key to that youngster continuing to do well.
So the reason why I call it an error is because what I am very used to seeing as a school psychologist who works predominantly in high schools is this misperception, this misunderstanding that a lot of these 504 and IEP level supports that a student has are things that they needed when they were younger that just continued to linger because the school didn’t want to rock their plan, didn’t really want to change their plan.
And then there isn’t really a discussion about what happens when you do take that exam and you don’t have 50% extended time. What happens when you need to do the assignment and it has an actual due date. And, I named this one specifically, and I have big feelings about this because unfortunately, as school providers, we did a lot of damage to our high schoolers during COVID when we started just letting them turn work in whenever, because what we’re seeing, particularly in these last two years, and are going to see probably for the next three or four, is youngsters, those without Mental Health challenges. They are shocked, horrified. Insert whatever word you want to about the fact that they have a due date for anything.
Candida Fink: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: So really taking a look at what accommodations are in place that that student is absolutely going to need moving forward, I’d say outside of this school setting. I think psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers that are working with these youngsters have to be clear with their clients about what things might they need outside of the classroom setting that exists as part of the college realm. So if your patient is thinking about attending a four year school things to be looking for are there live on requirements for that institution, right?
Candida Fink: Do they have to live on campus?
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Right. Do you think that they are able to successfully live with someone else? Because it is very unlikely that a first year and sometimes a second year student is very unlikely that they’re going to get a single room.
Jo-Ann Berry: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: If you think that this person is going to struggle with elements of campus living and campus functioning, those are things that need to be written down and discussed with that youngster in their family while they are looking at schools, not when they’ve already been accepted. Right. Because those are things that the families need to be asking when they’re coming to campus interest sessions. So this is before we even talk about what questions do they need to ask school providers.
It’s just basically understanding the landscape. And is this youngster in a position where they can independently function in these spaces? So that would be the first thing. The second thing would be, that I capture this under service provision on campus. So what services are offered at like campus health services? What does their psychiatry team or psychiatric staff look like? Is that something where the youth is able to have their full treatment done on campus? Or does that Health services sort of work as a bridge to home provision, meaning they can fill medication, they might be able to follow up with a student, but perhaps there’s a limited bound to the level of psychiatric care that can be provided in that space.
Okay, what is the model of counseling that’s used on that campus? For example, my university does not have strict session limits, but they are very clear that they operate on a short term or brief term, sort of counseling model. In other words, we have lots of families, lots of students who are coming to us saying, how do I transfer my counseling services to college? And depending on the setting, most college counseling centers are not set up to be long term care providers in that sense. So asking some of those important questions.
Most students who’ve had a 504 or IEP in the K-12 realm should be talking with a disability provider on that campus. Sometimes it’s called disability services, sometimes it’s called access services and supports. Those offices tend to be located either in an office like a dean of students office. Sometimes they’re located in academic affairs. And I’d say in the last five to seven years, we’ve seen some of those departments start to move into units that are called the diversity equity areas, social justice spaces. Right.
So finding where that office is and having a conversation about how accommodations are provided at that school. Those are the things that, are really important as these students are starting to look at schools and notice that I list them in a specific order, because I would say after they’ve done that, they should then be talking with the school team about, okay, or their providers. What documentation am I going to need that I don’t currently have in order for me to receive these services at school? The number one problem, and I have said this probably for the last eight years, and it has not changed, is when high schools, the last time that they have assessed a student might, have been 8th grade.
Candida Fink: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: I see that happen a lot. Or maybe it was 9th grade and they weren’t retested because their skills and their overall scores, both on educational and psychiatric measures, were deemed to be stable. Well, the problem with that is when they go to college, whether we’re talking undergrad, graduate school, professional school – most of those disability offices are going to require adult scores. Okay, so that testing that was done in 8th or 9th grade is not sufficient. Okay.
And so then we see families start incurring all sorts of fees, right? They’re trying to find someone who covers testing. We know psychological testing is not often covered by insurance. So we see that start to happen, and we also see a big mismatch, between what I call the realm of realistic possibility versus what the family is asking for. So, prime example of this would be my son or daughter needs a single room because they have an attentional deficit disorder and they can’t concentrate when other people around. Therefore, it is imperative that they have a single. Well no, actually it’s not a right. But the families oftentimes don’t understand why. Because there’s a misunderstanding of how does my child’s learning need translate into the adult realm.
Candida Fink: Yes.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Right. And what are the services that my student is in theory, entitled to? Which is none, by the way, in the college realm. But understanding that, there isn’t such a thing as wraparound service in college, I think is one of the most important things for families. And I find that even Jo-Ann, even my colleagues who work in therapeutic, right, like the one where you work and where I worked, even though they understand that we’re still seeing a lot of lack of preparation for families who are coming into our spaces. Right. They’re just shocked that they are not going to get this, even though everyone told them.
Jo-Ann Berry: Well, and that’s one of the things, actually, that we do work on quite a bit with our students who are planning to go to any additional education, whether it’s a community college, four-year school, whatever that, first of all, you can’t get the service if it’s not on your IEP. So, of course, all of our students are on IEPs and the most typical ones are extended time or testing in a separate space.
And we always tell them they don’t have to provide it, but that’s one of the things you should be looking for through disability support or academic support, whatever they call it. Those are the most likely ones. Will you be able to ask for an extension on a paper? Probably not.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: You can ask anything you want, right? Will it happen?
Jo-Ann Berry: And if it is offered or you turn in a paper late, it’s very typical to get either not accepted or a letter grade down for every day or something like that. And they look at me like, wait, what? I will say in school we have been kind of flexible with deadlines, and we still are because there’s a lot of reasons. I mean, they’re still at a point in their academic abilities and other things. But extended time is not infinite time.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Correct.
Jo-Ann Berry: Which that has gotten to be an eye opener for some people. It’s like, if you turn it in within the next day or two, I’m fine. If you turn it in next week, I’m going to ding you.
Candida Fink: Right?
Jo-Ann Berry: If you ask me at the end of the term, can you turn in stuff? I might say no. That type of thing. but preparing for that and what actually does constitute a reason to give a student a single room as a freshman. I don’t even know what that is.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: And, it depends on the school
Jo-Ann Berry: And they have limited dormitory space. It’s not like everybody gets a, you know, just not a thing. And part of the college experience is having a roommate. Candida and I are still here.
Candida Fink: Jo-Ann and I are here, however, blah, blah, blah, blah, years later.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: I love it.
Candida Fink: Met on the first day of college. But I will say I have kids with pretty significant mental health issues where we will make that request. And at that level, it’s almost always, well, this is so necessary for the child. And that’s what housing or student services wants to know that they’re not really going to be able to proceed or navigate school without that need. So something like severe OCD or something like that. but there is a lot of expectation for broad accommodations.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: That is so much.
Candida Fink: Oh, my gosh. You must see.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: I’m chuckling because, funny enough, so the director of disability access and inclusion at URI is also a school psychologist. And we came through the same program. And so we were actually at dinner last night. We called the last two weeks and the first two weeks of the semester, we just titled them “the audacity.” And we said we were actually going to have a shirt made because it’s like these overarching asks for things that are just not in the realm of reason at all.
I haven’t turned in my assignment since the middle of October because life got too hard. And now that it’s December 13, I am mad because my professor won’t let me turn things in. Well, my friend, it’s a 15 week semester so what you’re saying is on week seven, you just sort of checked out and you’re mad that on the last day of classes that they’re not taking your work. No one is going to help you through that. And so we spend a lot of time talking about whether someone is otherwise qualified.
Candida Fink: Mhm.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Okay to be in the campus space. And what I would say has sort of shifted in our conversation, since COVID is we were typically talking about otherwise qualified from an academic standpoint, like an academic skills perspective. But we’ve been having that conversation more frequently now as it relates to mental stamina and almost grit. And I don’t generally like to use those terms, but they are the correct ones for what we’re sort of talking about here.
So for the student who has such significant psychiatric needs that they do really need to live in their own space, we will acknowledge that all day. But however, we then talk about community impact and what we are seeing more of, and it’s very concerning to me, is we have more students who are needing to sort of exit the college learning space because they cannot self regulate enough to not impact the community of people that they are living or learning with.
I’ve gone to battle with quite a few other psychologists and some psychiatrists lately because there’s this conversation about, are we setting a student up for failure when we say they need x in order to navigate their academic environment? But although they’re navigating their academic environment, they are being very disruptive in and being disrupted by everything outside of their classroom space, which is now feeding into negative academic performance.
Candida Fink: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: So would it be better for this student to live not on campus, where they can be as dysregulated as they need to be, but where we as a campus community aren’t now having to put a student through a potential conduct process, or where they’re not showing up on our care teams each week because of the number of people they’re impacting.
And this, all around the country has been a really, popular, frustrating topic for disability providers, for case managers. And I’ve been saying this now probably for the last 15 years. Right. You have the right to be mentally unwell and access college. You have the right to do so, but you do not have the right for your lack of mental wellness to negatively impact others. That’s the cut off for sure.
But it’s very hard for students and families and sometimes their providers to hear that, because as a society we understand, that for our youngsters to get farther in life, that the concept of a college education is almost a requirement. Now we can talk about all the things that don’t require those right skilled professional trades, whatever, but there’s a misunderstanding that just because someone has the right to additional education, or we think they need it to be successful, does not mean that everyone was set up for the four year or sometimes even the two year college experience. And as an educator, right, that is hard for me to say out loud, but I find myself saying it about once a week.
Jo-Ann Berry: And then I think another thing that I see from my school sometimes, not universally, certainly, but many families reject the idea that it’s not a straight path, that perhaps 100% a student that’s 17 or 18 years old isn’t ready because of self-regulation ability or ability to manage their time or such things as that. But maybe in a year or two they might do a gap year, they might get a job, they might take a class or two at the community college, which that is a very legitimate way to test the waters and build some of those things.
I tell students all the time, life is never a straight path. Do you think I wanted to be an English teacher from the time I was twelve? No. Some students have been shocked and appalled by that. but it is, life is maybe at age 20 or 21 they might be ready and might choose to do it a different way than live on campus. But maybe they do want to live on campus. So we need to be open to different paths.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: It’s absolutely terrifying to families and students for many to have that conversation. It really is because the imposed or expected or the story is that it is a straight line and is that you must do it this way. And in certain types of school settings, very competitive ones, not only do you have to do it, but you have to do it only at a certain type of school at a certain level of competition. And you have to achieve there or it’s fail, like it’s defined as failure.
And I can see the blood drain often from families over, I’ve been doing this for 30 years and it drains from their face when I say, you know, we may just have to. What’s going to help serve my patient, your child, to help them succeed in the longer run. And as they get a little older, they can presumably have a little more agency over what they want. And once they’re out of that pre-planned story of oh, it has to be this way, they can begin to see, oh, maybe this isn’t what I want, or maybe I want to try something else because we have to account for their maturation too. That’s, I know, outside of the story of services in college, but it’s huge. I mean, it’s not outside of it, but it’s like, that may not be the story, right?
Candida Fink: Right?
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Like so many supports, are they otherwise ready qualified? Is it otherwise suited to them to help you do that?
I empathize with families so much because as a society, what we continue to drill, right, is this concept that college is done 15 credits per semester for four years, and that’s how you achieve a bachelor’s degree. In my office and actually in our dean of students office, which is a number of units, we have pushed back really hard, actually, against our admissions units, and it has nothing to do with our school specifically. But when you are pushing a narrative that 15 and four is how you get this done.
But we’re also saying we want to continue to bring in a more diverse set of students who don’t fit the old school model of traditional college student, those two things are incompatible. I spend a lot of time with brand new students sitting down and saying, here are the variety of ways that you can complete 30 credits in a year.
Candida Fink: Mhm.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: So let’s stop talking about a school year as two semesters, because it actually isn’t right for us. There is a fall, there’s a January term, there’s a spring, and there’s two, in theory, three summer sessions. Summer session three just means that it’s the combo of one and two. So we take a look at all right, well, what would it look like if you took nine credits in the fall and you took a January class, and then you took your nine credits in the spring, and maybe you took six or eight credits during the summer. Does that still get you the same number of credits in that year? Maybe, right? Almost. Right.
And so again, it goes back to your original question of what are the things that families need to look out for? Because one of the things that I’m never shy talking to families about is money.
Candida Fink: Right, you have to,
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Because if you have a child or young adult who has some specific learning needs, the reality is the cost of their college education is likely going to be more expensive than it would be for the youngster who is not going through some of these challenges either, because you’re going to end up hiring additional tutoring support, but more likely for one of these two reasons, because the student is going to need to take a little bit longer.
And this is what I try to help families avoid at all costs, because inevitably the family wants their youngster to be typically progressing, whatever that means, so badly that they ignore what everyone has said and they send them off and say, okay, even though things were terrible as of July, things are going to be great from September to December. And we see families dropping 20, 30, 45 grand, and the student fumbles and they struggle and they fumble and they struggle and they finally get connected with someone, but a little bit too late in the semester. And at that point, all we’re able to do is have them go out on a leave of absence. So we’re able to prevent the damage on the transcript, but we’re not able to go back and erase all that money that was spent.
And so again, we talk through what type of school? Where should that school be? Is your 17 to 20 year old ready to live on their own? Not asking if you want them to be ready? Do you think they’re ready to do it?
Candida Fink: Yeah, no, that’s such an excellent point. And I think probably one that doesn’t get talked about enough. So that’s fabulous that you’re just not shy about it. Just have that up there. Because even if you’re talking about spreading it out through a winter term and a summer term, financial aid comes in semesters. It comes by semester, by semester and additional supports.
If you want to take a winter term, that’s all going to be out of pocket that’s not going to be covered, usually, typically by financial aid, anyway. And it can be different for all situations, but I think it is the idea that a different path will likely cost more money. But maybe potentially we can reduce a big money crash, like a whole lost semester. If, as we talked about at the very beginning of this, having those conversations right at the start of even thinking about college and starting to look about and have those look, at colleges, and even having conversations, if there’s any way to say, you know what, maybe this year we’re not ready.
Jo-Ann Berry: Well, speaking of deadlines, part of that which I’m sure you talk to with students, there are withdrawal from class deadlines where you would lose less money. But if the student is struggling along, trying to meet outside expectations, they may either miss that, ignore it. It varies by school I’m sure, when that deadline is, but if you go in the next day and say, you know what, I want to withdraw, it’s like, oh, well, that just cost you how much ever.
Candida Fink: That’s right.
Jo-Ann Berry: So that’s just another thing to put on the horizon.
Candida Fink: Right.
Candida Fink: And that list of questions, that list of information that you need, because I know the SUNY schools, their withdrawal date is like two weeks into the semester and the private schools, it’s much further into the semester. But I’ve had kids, including one of my own, be like, what? So that information, like these lists of gathering data collecting. So valuable in this process, if it can be done.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Yes. It’s so important. And one thing we haven’t mentioned but I think is important for listeners to think about is tuition insurance is something that exists.
Candida Fink: M hm.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Most families do not know that it exists. But I think like most other insurance products, people say, I don’t need that.
Jo-Ann Berry: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: And they say it even when they’re like crossing their fingers and their toes and squinting, like when they send off the youngster, like we don’t know how this is going to go.
Candida Fink: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: One of the things I say is, okay, you don’t have to listen to any of the things that we’ve talked about. However, if you do decide to move forward, I’d strongly encourage your family to consider this piece. Particularly when you’re sending your child out of state or to a private school
Candida Fink: Yeah, exactly. No, I have come to have that conversation regularly as well because I think it’s just a very practical thing. But it can help everyone feel a little, take a little less of that out of the conversation if, you know, you can sort of at least recoup some of those costs.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Yeah. And it’s so complicated because I think, as tends to be the case with most things, people who have perhaps the most educational and financial privilege coming into the process are actually allowed to struggle longer. So let me explain what I mean by that. So if we take a look at how school is funded in general, let’s just use a state school or really any school for students who are utilizing federal financial aid separate from the cut off that the university actually has for their withdrawal. There are other deadlines for federal aid.
Candida Fink: Oh, interesting.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Such that, so like one example, and this is standard across the country, if a student who’s using federal aid drops out of their classes before the 60% point of the semester, the federal government actually has the right to take that aid back.
So let me give an example of what that means? Let’s say the semester cost, let’s say the tuition is $15,000 for the semester. The student misses their university withdrawal deadline where they’re going to get any money back, and then they drop out like third week of October. Well, they’ve not reached the 60% point of, the semester from the federal perspective. So now the student has dropped out, they owe money to the institution, and the student loans that they took out that covered part of that semester are actually going to get snatched back. so the family ends up owing more direct cash because the student didn’t meet the government requirement of aid. Right. So that’s for the family who needs their aid.
For families that are self paying, it’s a little bit different because, again, yeah, you missed the deadline, and, yeah, that really hurts. But the student does not have financial aid implications such that their aid got taken back. They also don’t have this concept of, did I complete enough of my attempted credits to be eligible for aid in the future?
Candida Fink: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: And that is something that many students who are struggling with their Mental Health. It’s a conversation I find myself having multiple times per week. And I think it’s important for high school educators to know that, for providers to know it as well. Just because a school saves a student’s transcript, so they might get a grade of, like, no work or no recorded grade or incomplete. When those grades are not earned letter grades, it actually still affects their eligibility for federal financial aid. You have to complete 67% of the credits that you attempt.
Candida Fink: Oh, wow. I had no idea.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: So again, if you’re a family that’s in a position that’s able to self pay, you don’t really care about that. I mean, you do, but it’s not something that applies to you. So if your student has a false start, they can false start each time. It’s costing you money. But there aren’t other stop gaps in place that are detrimental to that student.
So when we look at the layer of poverty or students and families that are squarely middle class but are trying to sort of climb to that next level and the student is unwell, there’s all these extra layers that have to be considered when we talk about, I want to try a little bit longer. They don’t understand how much is at stake when they do that.
And so that’s why working with someone like a case management department, like my office, we sit with a family or with a student and say, okay, here’s the list of things no one’s going to talk to you about, because they don’t know they need to talk to you about this. You’re not going to ask this at a welcome day because no one wants to talk to you about what happens if things go wrong at week seven. They want to talk to you about, like, hey, you’ve been accepted. Here’s all the information about what this cost. But hey, go say hello to school mascot.
These are things that I think in our lines of work, they’re important things to know and understand. And so I would say for schools, like, if you have a state school that’s close to you, where you’re seeing more of your students go into, it would be really helpful for a director of special education or people in that system to have some basic understanding of how their local state school works.
Candida Fink: Yeah, for sure.
Is that information that people, I mean, those kinds of laws are like, we rely on someone like you or someone who has a lot of knowledge to share that. Do you think there are resources for families?
Dr. Jacqi Springer: So there are resources, but they’re going to be buried in the financial aid website of the school that you’re looking at. And it’s going to be stated clearly. It’s going to say, right, your financial aid, if you withdraw from this semester before November 4, your federal aid is going to be taken back. It’s going to say that. But who’s reading that? Who is looking at that?
Candida Fink: Right?
Dr. Jacqi Springer: And so then you have to hope, like the student, their family, the degree granting college, who’s trying to help the student, the registrar’s office and the financial aid office are all looking at these different dates. And it’s not singularly any of their responsibilities. This is where you see the really unfortunate stories of a student who really tried for two years. They’re 80 grand in debt, they’ve got like 15 credits. Their family spent their life savings and they’ve not gotten any farther. Right. And so these are the sorts of things where I think our conversations in junior year, senior year, when the student first gets there, to college are really important.
Candida Fink: Right. That’s what a level of really critical information that is not on the front door and as you say. In very unequal ways affects those families who are coming from lower resources and less resourced families who are relying on those aid packages. And if their child is struggling, it’s a whole other level of difficulty.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Yeah. It’s a whole different version of hard is how we talk about it in our classes.
Jo-Ann Berry: Which I think just reemphasizes that perhaps going slower or less directly in the long run, not only for the students, because I would say, as an educator, certainly we want our students to succeed despite the fact that they think we hate them, we want them to succeed. We do like hanging out with them, and we would much rather see somebody take a zigzag path or a slower path. And then when you add in the financial implications to that, it’s like, really consider this. Wouldn’t you rather be successful with a half load and move forward at that pace than gather up all this debt?
Candida Fink: Yeah, for sure.
Jo-Ann Berry: Because, yeah, it’s better to succeed two courses at a time than to fail four courses at a time.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The last thing I’ll say about the financial piece that I do think will help some of the families and students that we work with the FAFSA is changing. It’s already changed, but the new FAFSA is being released on December 31, 2023. And so there are some key changes that can help those students and families who are reliant on some version of aid for them to be able to navigate the college experience.
One of those changes is that students will be eligible if they are Pell Grant eligible. Right. If their family resources such that they qualify for federal Pell they’ll be able to access that at a lower number of credits than they’ve typically been able to do. And so up until now, you had to have more than six credits to utilize your Pell funding. And one of the key legislative changes within the new FAFSA process is that students can access year-round Pell at that six credit mark.
Candida Fink: That’s actually really good news. We like to recognize something that’s positive, that’s a big change.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Yes, it’s a big change, and I think can make the world of difference for the students we’re talking about. Okay, if you want to go slower, you can take those six credits in the summer.
Candida Fink: Right.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: And if Pell is part of what your funding is, it will cover the tuition. Right. So just things to be aware of as we’re helping these families navigate. What does college completion potentially look like for your youngster?
Candida Fink: And that idea that we’ve come back to over and over, that it doesn’t look the same that we can’t expect it to look the same for every youngster, for every student, and especially in the people that kids and families, we’re talking about where there are mental health struggles to really be embracing the idea of figuring out your path, the student’s path.
Jo-Ann Berry: Yeah. What makes sense for you. Just because you did a slower pace for one year doesn’t mean that that’s going to be the rest. You might be able to take more classes, or maybe not. Maybe that’s the perfect amount for you, or maybe you could take one more or a full load. But being willing to take those steps on your own terms is really important.
Candida Fink: Big deal.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Absolutely.
Candida Fink: Well, I think we’ve kept you for two full recordings, and we really so appreciate your time and your knowledge and what you’ve shared with us and our listeners. Thank you so much.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: You’re welcome.
Jo-Ann Berry: Yes, thank you.
Candida Fink: So, any last thoughts or anything we should know in terms of We’ll put any resources that we talked about in the show?
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Still great. No, with regard to this, I would just say, that as much information as schools and providers can gather about their local institutions to sort of help you help your youth navigate what’s around, the more knowledge you have and you feel confident in that information, we’ll just be able to help the families that you’re working with more. And what I know for a fact is if you approach your local schools, they would be happy to have that conversation so that they’re not having to correct misinformation or having to sit with students who have come unprepared because people just didn’t have the information for them beforehand.
Candida Fink: That’s a great idea. Very specific thing you can do.
Dr. Jacqi Springer: Absolutely.
Candida Fink: All right, well, thank you again.
Jo-Ann Berry: Thank you.
Candida Fink: We will really, look forward to getting this out to our listeners and hearing, their responses So thank you. Thank you so much, Jacqui
Candida Fink: Take care.
Jo-Ann Berry: Thank you.